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#1 18-Jul-2008 10:22:52

ezuk
Member
Registered: 12-Jul-2008
Posts: 75

Ctrl+<key> and Win+<key> still follow QWERTY mappings :(

Hello,

The QWERTY "U" key is remapped on my system to L (using MS Keyboard Layout Editor).

Despite this fact, when I hit this key with CTRL pressed, it sends Ctrl+U. So in Word, for example, it underlines the selected text instead of left-aligning it.

And to lock my workstation, I now need to hit Win+I, and not Win+L, because the I now sits on the key that used to be L. So... why can't I hit Win+L using the L's new location? Why doesn't it work?

The same is true for the other keys I remapped. This is bad, because it forces me to keep remembering their QWERTY positions every time I try to hit a Ctrl or Win shortcut.

Help?

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#2 18-Jul-2008 10:38:00

tomlu
Member
Registered: 17-Mar-2008
Posts: 192

Re: Ctrl+<key> and Win+<key> still follow QWERTY mappings :(

Some programs look at the characters produced, but others look at the virtual key codes. You need to change the latter as well. If you use the sanctioned installer this will all have been done for you.

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#3 18-Jul-2008 10:50:39

ezuk
Member
Registered: 12-Jul-2008
Posts: 75

Re: Ctrl+<key> and Win+<key> still follow QWERTY mappings :(

tomlu wrote:

Some programs look at the characters produced, but others look at the virtual key codes. You need to change the latter as well. If you use the sanctioned installer this will all have been done for you.

There's no sanctioned installer for my particular system. I use DreymaR's graudated Tarmac learning system (with great results so far, btw).

I had to implement it myself because I'm the first one to use it. I know I did something wrong -- but I don't know what. I just produced PKL files using the MS Keyboard Layout Editor and then installed them.

Could you point me toward some source about changing the virtual key codes? I'm using Vista (with Admin priviliges on my account).

Thanks for your help!

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#4 18-Jul-2008 12:11:55

tomlu
Member
Registered: 17-Mar-2008
Posts: 192

Re: Ctrl+<key> and Win+<key> still follow QWERTY mappings :(

At a glance it seems you cannot change those using the Microsoft tool, which renders it a bit useless. I personally use Keyboard Layout Manager, which is not free. You may be able to use autohotkey, I believe it resends the key as if pressed by the user.

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#5 18-Jul-2008 15:19:35

ezuk
Member
Registered: 12-Jul-2008
Posts: 75

Re: Ctrl+<key> and Win+<key> still follow QWERTY mappings :(

tomlu wrote:

I personally use Keyboard Layout Manager, which is not free.

I went and got KLM. They have a free Lite edition which is enough for me, because I don't need AltGr and things like that.

I edited my layout, but could not figure out how to fix this problem. I clicked the "Resolve VKs" button, and it said they've been resolved.

I saved and restarted (because I was editing the default layout), but it didn't fix the problem.

What should I do to fix the VKs so L is _really_ L, for example?

Thanks!

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#6 18-Jul-2008 16:14:13

tomlu
Member
Registered: 17-Mar-2008
Posts: 192

Re: Ctrl+<key> and Win+<key> still follow QWERTY mappings :(

That should have done it. My first guess is that something went wrong in the process, i.e. you did not successfully remap the virtual key codes or are not actually using the layout that you created in KLM. Do you have any way of listening to the virtual key codes of your input? If you are a programmer, you can easily enough trap them yourself. Otherwise, I believe there are programs for that purpose.

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#7 18-Jul-2008 18:22:51

Shai
Administrator
Registered: 11-Dec-2005
Posts: 349

Re: Ctrl+<key> and Win+<key> still follow QWERTY mappings :(

There's no way to change the VK directly through MSKLC. In order to change the VKs, save the KLC file, and edit them manually in a text editor.

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#8 18-Jul-2008 20:22:30

ezuk
Member
Registered: 12-Jul-2008
Posts: 75

Re: Ctrl+<key> and Win+<key> still follow QWERTY mappings :(

Shai wrote:

There's no way to change the VK directly through MSKLC. In order to change the VKs, save the KLC file, and edit them manually in a text editor.

Thanks Shai - that clears that up. I will try locating the correct VK codes using existing KLC files. If there's a good VK table online, would be great if you could send me a link to it (I googled and came up with a lot of nothing).

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#9 18-Jul-2008 20:27:47

Shai
Administrator
Registered: 11-Dec-2005
Posts: 349

Re: Ctrl+<key> and Win+<key> still follow QWERTY mappings :(

You can take a look at the Colemak KLC files in the Colemak Windows download. The VK is the second column.

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#10 18-Jul-2008 22:36:33

ezuk
Member
Registered: 12-Jul-2008
Posts: 75

Re: Ctrl+<key> and Win+<key> still follow QWERTY mappings :(

Resolved!

Thanks Shai! It turned out to be quite simple, and works like a charm! I made the change, re-installed, rebooted, and voila. :)

The layout finally feels "real" and solid. I appreciate your help.

Will post corrected KLC on Tarmac thread.

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#11 17-Apr-2011 13:00:25

tufflax
New member
Registered: 04-Apr-2011
Posts: 4

Re: Ctrl+<key> and Win+<key> still follow QWERTY mappings :(

This helped me a lot! Thank you! I still have questions though:

I want the ' key, beside O, to act as the Enter/Return key when pressed without a modifier. But I want to type a % when pressing it with AltGr. You see, I'm using my Caps Lock as AltGr, with all the non-letter symbols on AltGr + letters, but there are too few keys that I can comfortably press if I can't make the ' key have this double meaning. Can this be done, or is Enter/Return special in a way that makes it impossible?

I'm using MSKLC on Windows + editing the .klc file, so if the solution could be described in terms of that, that would be great.

Last edited by tufflax (17-Apr-2011 14:54:26)

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#12 17-Apr-2011 14:11:53

pafkata90
Member
From: Aalborg, Denmark
Registered: 05-Mar-2011
Posts: 383

Re: Ctrl+<key> and Win+<key> still follow QWERTY mappings :(

Check out the program called KeyTweak. It's free and you can just google it. I believe you can do what you want with it.

Last edited by pafkata90 (17-Apr-2011 14:12:46)

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#13 17-Apr-2011 14:55:24

tufflax
New member
Registered: 04-Apr-2011
Posts: 4

Re: Ctrl+<key> and Win+<key> still follow QWERTY mappings :(

Thanks! But I might wanna be able to swap between qwerty and colemak, at least for now.

Last edited by tufflax (17-Apr-2011 17:56:20)

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#14 17-Apr-2011 21:08:33

pafkata90
Member
From: Aalborg, Denmark
Registered: 05-Mar-2011
Posts: 383

Re: Ctrl+<key> and Win+<key> still follow QWERTY mappings :(

In that case, I don't know. I don't think you can set keys like Enter to be layout specific, but then again - it's not unlikely that I'm wrong.

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#15 26-Apr-2011 11:52:02

DreymaR
Member
From: Bærum, Norway
Registered: 13-Dec-2006
Posts: 2,119
Website

Re: Ctrl+<key> and Win+<key> still follow QWERTY mappings :(

I think that's impossible. By editing the .klc file manually you could make the apostrophe key a Return but then that's what it'd be. I don't think you can have a part glyph, part functional key like you want to.

In PKL you can, however. I use PKL quite a lot for my layout needs. It's Windows-only but that's about the only gripe I have with it (well, apart from my wish for multiple Extend mapping sets...).


Better burden you cannot carry than man-wisdom much  --  Hávamál
Check out my Big Bag of Keyboard Tricks! For XKB (Linux) and for PKL (Win).

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